I appreciate all the comments to my last post about my alleged ninja-looting incident. I say alleged because there are arguments for both sides of the issue. But before I respond to everyone, let me clarify a few things.
There are a few things in my last post that I left out. Some of it was intentional and some if it wasn’t, but I feel everyone touched on the main points of the issue.
For All Intents And Purposes
What was my actual intent on rolling on loot? It was with the intent to gear myself up. I want another Ulduar geared healer. It was not my intent to acquire loot and pass it on.
Gnomer brought up a good point I hadn’t thought about regarding my intent and if I rolled “after [my] guildy’s roll was beaten”. I can gladly say that I rolled first out of everyone including pugs. It was the last item of the night and a few people had already started leaving the raid while probably half the raid had already ported back to Dalaran.
One fact I intentionally left out of the story was that I gave the item to my guildie after the raid. In fact, I had already left raid and we were both in Dalaran. The raid was over. The reason I ended up giving it to her was due to a playful complaint about her roll after the fact.
OK, so this exonerates me, right? Some of you might say yes, because my intent was good. Others will still argue that if I was going to pass, then the pass goes to the next in line. I don’t get to arbitrarily pick who I pass it to which D defined as a loot council, only I’m a council of one.
No one ever wants to feel like they are in the wrong. It’s not a great feeling, so when we find ourselves in the wrong position it’s human nature to try to rationalize our way out of it. You could argue that my last post was doing that and I can argue that some of my readers were rationalizing that I’m not exactly a ninja. But the majority of you agreed that I did ninja the item.
Firespirit stated “Yes, guildies come first, but even if your only pug 1 or 2, that raid would most likely not have happened without them.” And I agree that guildies come first, but as stated this wasn’t a guild run. I would disagree that the lack of 1 or 2 pugs in a Naxx25 given my guilds gear and abilities would have stopped the run. We weren’t missing necessary tanks or healers, but I would hope that my readers are fair-minded enough to not use that as an argument.
Just because you could do it without pugs, doesn’t make stacking the odds against them fair. And I have seen that rationalization in game before. The pugs couldn’t do it without all of us so they get to live with it is almost a direct quote. Fortunately that officer quit my former guild a short time later.
To: Those That Called Me A Ninja
My response to you is: Busted! Let’s be honest. I knew the answer before I even started writing the post, but I also know it’s a somewhat controversial topic and would make a great post.
Some of you didn’t call me a ninja because I didn’t set out with that intention. And I definitely appreciate that. Even winning the last item I intended on keeping it, trading it in, and gearing up. Due to a flippant comment made in fun, I decided to pass it to a guildie. The raid was over, the pugs had left, end of story. But is it?
The raid hadn’t been over that long. All I had to do was scroll up to see the names of those that rolled, find the second highest, and pass it to the pug. But as Firespirit said, “guildies come first”. So why would I pass it to a pug instead of keeping it? I wouldn’t. I doubt any of you would either. But that’s not the point for that side of the argument. Even if you attempt to argue that the guy went offline your argument falls short since the 2 hour trade window is game time**, so you can still trade as long as you don’t gem, enchant, or stay online for more than 2 hours.
And as it turns out my guildie actually realized after the fact that she had a better helm and gave me the token back. So in the end the net result was nothing. No one lost unfairly on loot. But that doesn’t make for a good post. :)
To be honest, I don’t pug very often so I never thought this situation would present itself to me. As such I wasn’t prepared. After the raid I decided to be nice and give a friend the token and it wasn’t until after I did that I realized perhaps that wasn’t the right thing to do. But now I’ve had time to think about it, this is what I will be doing:
If it is an upgrade, I’m going to roll. If I win and something happens that makes me decide to pass, it goes to the next highest roll. If it is not an upgrade, then I don’t roll.
- I win several items and I stop rolling. No one rolls on an item so I do, but then someone changes their mind and rolls.
- I roll and then 15 other people roll. I will often consider withdrawing my roll, but I usually lose anyway. :P
- If a lot of people roll on an item, I usually don’t even bother. Seriously. I want loot as much as the next guy, but it’ll drop again so…meh. This is probably why I’ve never completed a full tier set…ever.
This still leaves one little issue that I’m extremely curious about what you all think. Depending on the who the 2nd highest roll is would definitely influence whether I pass or not. For a guildie? Sure. A pug? No. Is that unfair? Logic tells me no, but something in my gut says yes.
And whatever you decide to do is up to you. It’s not for me to judge. I’m just advising you to be prepared because if you’re like me, you will feel guilty after the fact.
*Following the poll results didn’t really help me decide, so I’m doing three simultaneously because I’m bored. :)
**At least if I’ve observed it correctly. I’ve logged in the next day to enchant an item and gotten the warning.
Filed under: Raiding