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Why Do You Play? Or More Specifically, My Raiding Rant!

Why do you play?


Raiding, PvP, and social reasons aren’t good enough answers. More detail.


All right, let me clarify what I’m looking for.

Let’s Pick On Raiding

There are a lot of us that play this game to raid. In fact I think most of us would agree that it’s the main focus of the game. Based on everything I’ve read, seen, or heard I don’t know many that would say Blizzard’s main focus has been behind PvP. Just compare the number of arenas and battlegrounds to the number of dungeons, if you disagree. But the question remains. Why do you raid?

I just like raiding. I like killing bosses.

Do you really? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that line from people that are FULL OF IT!!!

You like raiding? Yes I do.

You like killing bosses? Absolutely!

You like loot drops off bosses? Not when they drop for the non-existent warlock, but yeah I do. 😉

You like being at the top of the dps meters? Hell yeah I do!!!

You like having tps so high that no one can pull off you? Git ‘r dun!

You like having the highest heals and lowest overheals? Heh, heh. Chain Heal ftw!

You like wiping? Um…no…not really…but it happens…

You like wiping yourself on a boss for three hours straight without a kill? …um…no?

You like raiding Ulduar10 when you know that Ony10 or ToC10 drops equal or better gear and is as easy or easier? …well…I…you see…I don’t really need anything from Ulduar. There are some upgardes, but there’s this really shiny purple in ToC that you really got to check out and the bosses are really easy!!! Hold on, let me link it…


I don’t raid for loot. I understand the excitement, enjoyment, and sense of accomplishment we all get from loot. But I don’t understand those that ultimately only raid for loot. Isn’t there more accomplishment in getting a difficult boss to farm status than getting his loot?

We’ve all seen people that link their gear in chat all day long. They like to show off the new loot they won and by doing so e-peen about their new abilities. I’m happy for you. I really am. But I also don’t give a rat’s ass! In fact, now that I think about it I’m actually upset!

Why are you pugging Toc25s when you won’t sign up for our Uld10s?! FFS!!!


13 Responses

  1. You already answered your own question…”They like to show off the new loot they won and by doing so e-peen about their new abilities.”

  2. I actually raid because I like to laugh at the losers. I don’t really want anything. JUST A DANG WAND WITH HASTE FFS!!!!

  3. Agreed,

    I raid for the fun of raiding and killing bosses. Of course i’m happy to get some better epic gear but its not why i’m raiding. (Ask Mikita, she knows i’m not in it for the gear).

    I was really dispointed that we decided to run Ony 10 and VoA 10 instead of Ulduar yesterday. I mean, anybody can easily pug those 2 raid during the week (i do every weeks) and come to our scheduled Uld 10 progression raid.

    I see 2-3 big problems in our guild right now about raiding.

    First: we have too many raiders for 10 man but not enough for 25 man. That lead to lot of people being left out on raiding night which lead to hard feeling QQing. We need to crank up the recruiting to have enough people to do 25 man raid…or at least 2×10 man raid. We have way too many healer to have only 1×10 man raid and no guild drama.

    Second: The raid signing system might not be the best one. I’m pretty sure a lot of member arent signed up on the guild site (or dont visit it very often) and thus dont sign up for raid. It might be a better idea to use the in-game calendar invite system.

    Third: Alts. I think we have too many alts. Take last night for exemple, raiding Ony 10 with some alts instead of going progression raiding on their main!?! This is so not what a raiding guild should do. I dont have a problem with wanting to gear up alt and raiding on them but it should not be done on official raiding nights.

    As i said before, we have a LOT of healers but only 3 raiding spots so if we dont start raiding 25 man it will end up being a problem. I dont mind sitting up once in a while but i play this game for raiding so if i end up sitting often… and i’m sure it applies to the other healers too.

    As for the “raiding for loot” thing. Get used to it, patch 3.3 will release 4 new 5 man instance that will drop ilvl 232 purples. So anybody who’s raiding only for loot wont ne nothered to raid Uld or even ToC after that patch comes out (its on test realm already).

  4. @Kotakh – Yeah, I hate the sitting thing. I don’t pug which makes it worse. I went to Ony25 last week. It’s the only raid I’d done in two weeks until last night. And yet I felt bad that you were one of the ones to sit.

    We do have too many healers right now, but just enough for 25s which is why I don’t want to lose any of them and will do whatever I can to keep you guys happy until we do get into 25s, including sitting out of every blasted raid.

    As for last night not doing Uld10, that was more of an issue that we didn’t have a good group comp to do Ulduar and healers that needed to go offspec if we wanted to attempt it. I think the concern was wanting to extend the lockout rather than start over which we could have done.

    Ultimately people wanted to do Ony10 instead and as much as Josh and I hated to, we succumbed to what the guild wanted rather than what was scheduled. And for a raid like Ony I’m more inclined to let alts in.

  5. People PuG for a lot of reasons, but the ones I know who do, PuG because they have so much time online during the day it would be stupid for them not to.

    (Well, also, they LOVE being on top of the gear score charts and stuff, but let me go ahead and give then the benifit of the doubt for now…)

    For my guild, we’re geared to be able to handle Uld25, according to WoW-Heroes, based on gear score. Yet, for some reason, we haven’t gotten past Hodir on Uld10.

    That’s right – Uld10.

    And our semi-regular 25 man group (meaning we only usually have to PuG in 5-8 people each time) has not yet downed Kologarm.

    That’s right – can’t get past Kolo.

    And yet, due to PuGs, many of these people have great gear. (Remember, we’re geared for Uld25.) And we’re focusing on stuff outside of Ulduar. ToC10 is our raid for the week.

    So, yeah – PuGs are also there for people who have enough time to commit to all the ‘other raids’ that the guild isn’t doing organized that week, so they can continue to get gear and see the fights. And while it can, supposedly, help the guild (with better geared players for those who are able to do more), it can cause problems as well.

    (In truth, it does causes drama – there’s a lot of “This shouldn’t be so hard, we PuGged it the other day and everything went fine.” or Gear Envy, or even trying to press the Raid Leader into changing the strategy utilized since it “wasn’t how the PuG did it, and we won easily” – though in truth the last one also happens with the videos, too. Oh, and lockout issues – did I mention lockout issues?)

    But, you do have a good point, though, Kyrilean. Do the event with your guild first – even if the success rate isn’t as high. After all, why else are you in the guild? If it’s for raiding, raid WITH your guild, that’s what you’re there for. If it’s a bit more friendly than that, work with and play with your friends first.

    Either way, Guild should come before PuGs. And have a little patience – why always race for the top? Take some time, smell the roses, and ENJOY the raids for what they are – activities for fun.

    My 2 yen,


  6. @Akiosama – the problem is they aren’t pugging Uld10 or 25. They just don’t want to do it while the rest of us want to complete it.

  7. I raid for:
    1) the experience
    2) the boss kill (sort part of 1)
    3) the loot.

    There are probably 1/2 dozen things in there between 2 & 3.

    I stopped regular raiding in part because of the emblem, instance and raid farming insanity that was going on.. which I can (and probably wouldn’t) participate in.

    So now I have a main with Naxx 10 gear, and an Alt that will soon be able to buy level 80 gear at the AH…

    But I wont have an emblem/ToC/Ony/Uld character to get into raids (or heroics) in the 1st place.

  8. I have also noticed that most players are no longer too interested in Ulduar. They prefer to do ToC, VoA, Onyxia. I understand VoA’s because the bosses do drop tier gear.

    Those that prefer to Onyxia over Ulduar are morons, all they see is the 242 gear level and not the stats on the gear. They don’t realize that most of the gear there is worthless for raiding. But it is 242 gear and their gear scores goes up. Never mind its only good for a few bosses in the game.

    The true raiders in my guild are pushing to down Yogg to get the achievement. We know time is running out because coming the next patch Ulduar will got the way of Naxx. Nobody wants to do Naxx anymore because they can get better gear from ToC 5 man, both regular and Heroic.

    My point is that is easy to down a boss when you are overgear. The challenge, and the fun, is to down him when you are not.

  9. Our raid nights are Mon/Wed/Thurs (we don’t do Tuesday because atm I am the only raid leader), I got home from a very long day at work yesterday it was 10:30pm my time/12 serv. There were 6-7 ppl in Ony 10…. I schedule things in my guild, and the only acceptation to the schedule is if you cant be here then pug, otherwise your butt better be ready for an invite if you signed up. For us TOC10 is wed and last week we did it in a short amount of time and all in one night, we then went and beat down ony after that.

    That was my intention this week, I put in the comments/notes that we would be ony 10 after… no one apparently reads including 2 of my officers… one of which apologised, but still come on really, we have been doing ony as a guild since it came out, and last night i was a little mad about it, thats now ‘potentially’ 6-7 spots that I will have to fill, and depending on attendance I may have to pug… I hate doing that for something like that, and plus last night was Tuesday the first day of reset… if it was Monday ya I would see it… Grrrr makes me mad, I will have to talk to ppl again and try to say “Hey, guild run guys, guild run!”

    Well and this is a lil petty they were in there for 3h where it takes us maybe an hour if things go rocky… so :p

  10. Personally, there are many reasons that I raid.

    1. I raid so that I can play wow with my friends, both in-game and real life friends. It’s a bonding thing, and since I recently moved I can’t hang out with them in real life anymore.

    2. I raid because I enjoy being good at what I do. I’m a damn good healer, and it’s nice to be able to put my talents to use keeping everyone alive.

    3. It’s fun to be with a group of people that know what they are doing, are following RL directions, and make boss killing a work of art. Obviously, this doesn’t happen all the time, but after trying a bunch of times to down those stupid Champions in TOC when something just “clicks” and BOOM down they all go… it’s an AWESOME feeling. This synergy that develops when you raid with the same people consistently is a great feeling and makes it FUN.

    4. I like upgrading my gear. It’s fun to be on the cutting edge gear-wise, and better gear helps me fulfill my role better.

    5. I like experiencing new content. Why go do an Uld 10 when TOC 10 may drop better stuff and it’s easier? If we haven’t cleared Uld 10, then it’s the fun and challenge of figuring out new fights, seeing new mobs, trying new stuff, getting new achievements. If you are just doing the farm content, then raiding just becomes grinding and it’s boring.

    I too find it frustrating when we can’t get people signing up for raids, but they’ll go PUG all kinds of things. I understand that maybe they can’t raid at the days/times posted, but why not give feedback to our RL’s so they can maybe try out some new dates/times to hit more people’s availability? It’s a shame to see good gear going to people we PUG because guildies are already saved. 😦


  11. […] and The Kitchen Sink. Alot of talk around the Blogosphere about Raiding, Casuals, and Hardcores of Punishment, and Reward.  So I’m going to give you Everything and […]

  12. Kyrilean,

    Ah, I see your question – I think that’s a question of efficiency, and what’s already been done by that player before.

    I’ve noticed that the people who have PuGged the 25 man versions tend to be the ones who have the most input/criticism about progress in the 10 mans. They also tend to have better gear, and so want to progress more quickly to the higher instances and skip the lower ones. So, in other words, the ones that get regular groups for ToC10/25 and Ony10/25 tend to scoff at the idea of going back to Uld, since “There aren’t any upgrades there, lets go on to the newer stuff,” despite the fact that the others in the group could get upgrades and be better geared for that content. They just don’t want to wait – they’ve done it before and “know” they can do it.

    What it comes down to is focus. Is that particular raider’s focus on group progress or individual progress? The ones I see who PuG a lot tend to focus on their individual progress, they want to [see the new content/get better gear/get achievements] as fast as possible, so they don’t wait for the rest of the guild’s schedule. Now, not that being better geared and seeing the content aren’t helpful to the guild, I think that the attitudes it spawns, especially if the PuG groups are successful, also hurts the guild – and it can be to the point where the guild’s raid group is barely functional (I’m actually seeing that now, unfortunately – too much “We did it this way in the PuG and won” or “It wasn’t hard in that group the other day, y’all [aren’t doing your job/aren’t good enough geared/suck],” and the likes.)

    The other issue is the old philosophy that existed before of Guild group > PuG. This doesn’t necessarily hold true anymore, especially if there are vast differences in time that players can invest in the game to improve the characters, but the philosophy hasn’t really gone away. There’s still a lot of attitude of “I was able to do it in a PuG, we should be able to do this.”

    And unfortunately, this can lead to “I don’t need you guys – I’m more successful in my PuGs.” Which just seems to say, “You guys aren’t really friends, I don’t care if you succeed or not, you’re just there to help me raid.”

    I think the rapid accelleration of gear is not only hurting the idea of what progression is, but hurting guilds as well, because there are a LOT of people now with great gear, which means PuGs can outdo guilds pretty regularly now, and has put the focus back on to gear, rather than the activity that gets the gear, since the progression is so rapid.

    And that’s sad.

    [If I never hear “I can get a new 80 geared up for Uld in a week,” again, it will be too soon. =(]

    My 2 yen,


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