We finally did it! We downed Anub’arak on regular 25! Oh and I made out like a bandit.
Loot rules were one item, one weapon, and one trophy per raid. As usual I was the only shaman, so I generally make out like a bandit anyway. 🙂 Ironic considering I’m the guy that cares the least about gear. (Or is that I do care, but I know I’ll get it eventually anyway so I don’t care? Hmmm.) But I did win a caster ring as my item and the trophy off the same boss. So I was done. Then the next boss drops 3 mail items, the leggings I’d already had and discarded for something better. The bracers(?) I ended up giving to a hunter because apparently he wasn’t paying attention and I was the only offspec roll. Maybe if he’d switch to adds like he’s supposed to he’d be better at paying attention. 😛 And the other item I can’t remember what it was, but I think I got it.
Sad thing is we should have done this weeks ago. What did it? We went back to our old tanks for adds. I’m sorry if it offends our newer tanks, but it really boiled down to add control especially the little buggers. Zoja was able to slow them and keep them occupied long enough to allow dps to down them before they killed people. In fact, he was doing such a good job that I don’t think I even got hit by one. I’ve usually had 8-9 stacks on me before… Healing through those stacks on everyone is a bitch! I know we’ve got to be one of the last guilds to finally do it, but whatever we finally did it!
We struggled a little bit, wiped once on Beasts, wiped twice on Anub, and had a little drama as tension increased. I know we’re all a bunch of well-educated, knowledgeable people always wanting to help others who don’t know any better, but there are three things to remember in a raid:
- 1) If you’re a pug, keep the advice to yourself. You might know better, but you’re the “guest” so keep your trap shut and don’t offend your hosts! There’s only one exception to this found in #2;
- 2) If the raid seems to have lost direction and appears to need help OR if they ask for advice, then “make a suggestion”. Yes, I said “make a suggestion”. That does NOT mean say, “We shouldn’t have used Heroism/Bloodlust during the 2nd phase. That was a mistake.” It DOES mean say, “Hey might I make a suggestion?” And if they say no, KEEP YOUR DAMN TRAP SHUT!!! And;
- 3) You may feel that mistakes were made, but remember unless you’re the Raid Leader those mistakes aren’t yours to make. I strongly believe that there are no mistakes made by raid leaders when leading a raid. So calling for Heroism during the 2nd phase because the RL is not sure we’ll make it to 3rd phase without it isn’t a mistake. It was a choice. If it had worked, we would have been praising the RL for making the right choice because we would have failed otherwise. But since it didn’t you called it a mistake. Oh noes! What a terrible one too! Especially considering your Exhaustion debuff lasts through death…oh wait no it doesn’t! /sigh
The funny thing about last night was it infused a new spirit of raiding in me. Something I’ve struggled with for months now. We made progress. I made progress. Abandoning Ulduar was not progress…hell I still have only stepped into Uld25 once.
But either way I had fun last night and am glad it was a 25 because I would have attempted to wiggle my way out of it if it had been a 10. Call of Duty has a strong siren call. 😛
Anyway, gratz to BoO members for finally making more progress! 😀
Filed under: Leadership, Raiding, Rant | Tagged: Having fun |
Casual Hardcore 
Nice read. Gives me encouragement to hurry up and hit lvl 80!
Congrats! We had the same feeling the other night with 25 man normal Faction Champions.
As for raid leader calls – sometimes they make mistakes – it’s a hazard of the job. Sometimes an unusual call works though – we rezzed a high dps rather than the healer that was down this past week on Icehowl and because of that, we beat the enrage [by 2 secs] 😛
Grats on Anub!
I totally agree, re: giving the raid leader some space to breathe. In the heat of the moment, a decision (even the wrong one!) is always better than indecision. We ran into a similar situation while working on heroic Anub (who we still haven’t downed yet). Our raid leaders decided to blow Bloodlust in P1 just so we could get into P2. A few raiders objected. Our response? “Yes, thank you, we know we have to save the Lust until P3 in order to down Anub — but our goal right now isn’t to down him. It’s to master P1 and practice P2, so there’s no point in saving Lust until P3 until we actually make it to P3.”
I have to disagree with you regarding PuG’s, though. If you need PuG’s to fill your raid, then PuG’s should have the same consideration that your guild members do — not only for loot, but for the opportunity to input into strategy and offer feedback. “Shut your trap and don’t offend your hosts!” is kind of presumptious coming from a guild that doesn’t have ToC25 on farm yet, especially since you’re asking the PuG’s to wipe with you. I know I’d be pretty peeved if I joined a guild run only to be told I was supposed to be grateful I was being “carried,” rather than treated as an equal (if temporary) member of the team — especially if I had prior kills under my belt.
That said, my perspective may be skewed because BDF is a fairly progressed server and our trade channel PuGs are usually able to down Anub. I only run ToC25 on my main; I PuG it on my alts and have become rather sensitive to the way people look down on PuG’s. /shrug
mucho congrats friend
Now comes the fun part…Farming that sucka for ICC!!
Congrats to your guild, there no better feeling than clearing an instance for the first time.
You guys put tanks on Scarabs? We always tell our tanks to stay the hell away from them unless they are 100% sure is not after one of us.
@Michelle – I think I may have miscommunicated my intent with “don’t offend your hosts”. The point is that if you’re in a pug and not leading it, you agreed to join and follow that leader for better or worse. This is why BGs are often so bad. Too many leaders doing their own thing. 😛
In our case, Heroism was called for in phase 2. Most everyone agrees that is a mistake. Even the RL knew that it needed to be saved, but he made the call knowing that it was entirely possible we wouldn’t make phase 3 without it, which we didn’t anyway. It was close. My UI showed we made it, but apparently we didn’t because he burrowed.
Regardless if someone (pug or not) feels really strongly about saying something, then I recommend following advice #2 and “suggest” a course of action, don’t inform.
A mistake? Depends on your definition. But not using it meant we weren’t going to get to phase 3 anyway which meant it was a wipe. Ultimately not their call to make.
Oh and your pug comment gave me an idea for a post after my response got too long. 🙂
Gratz guys!! I will have to head over to bubbles to see your strat on it, we are stuck at Anoooob ourselves.
@ Michelle
I can see where you are coming from but I know for us that isnt really the case for PUGs, I am on a server that is pretty behind on progression i.e. 213/250 or something sad like that, and really there are not a ton of 25man content guilds that are out there.
It can be very difficult to find good ppl, they are out there but the majority are already in other guilds and run it with their guild, some of them have very geared alts to pull from which can help because then they ‘know’ the fights and can pull their weight.
In my guild we have to PUG sometimes and it can be good or it can be an ever living nightmare. And tbh sometimes I like getting pugs, on certain runs I go out of my way to get pugs i.e. my Friday night Uld/Naxx 25man runs (its on an off night so I dont expect a ton of our ppl to be on), so far on those we get past the cat lady, hodier went ermm….. /cry learn to ice mound hop. But it can be a great way to get new members and I use it for a recruiting tool, look at how they did on the meters, did they do their assigned tasks, did they stand in fires and the like.
Anyway, I try to cultivate friends that I can count on for the spots that I do need to fill but that isn’t always possible, and so I then go to trade channel. It can be interesting for sure, and scary, obnoxious and potentially evil. Why must ppl in blues think they are ready for 25man TOC, or when I say LFM for _____, wsp your dps, I get “dps here” or “I’m a dps”. I have become slightly cynical I now check everyone on Wowheros, and yes gear doesn’t hold the value it used to where you used to be skilled (or know how to get carried in the odd occurrence) to acquire it… now even with gear it could be a crap shoot, I’m not trying to be a snob but I cant stand when ppl suck, amazing gear but can only pull 4k if they are lucky… and they lived the whole time… what?!? Even my hunter that is in mostly uld 10man gear/ 25man Naxx can pull 4k and I don’t play her often anymore, and I feel a lil off in my rotation because I don’t, I am watching my CDs like a hawk because I don’t have the same rhythm and feel for her as I did… but I can get out of fires, I can kite, I can MD, or any other task that is required of me.
Also with the point on the ‘shut your trap’ it all comes down to the ppl you get I find, when I am leading something and I know it works and has worked in the past very well, input isn’t required especially when I am in the middle of explaining it at that time is not the time to pipe in, if after a few goes it doesn’t seem to be working by all means WSP me I cant stress the wsp part and if I say hey ya that sounds great I can get you to explain it or I can which ever, or if I ask anyone have a different strat on this?? Otherwise it becomes a matter of too many cooks in the kitchen and ppl then get confused as to whats happening. Or some expatiations that were given were all over the place or didn’t make sense then it is harder to sift through and straighten it out for everyone.
Anyway I ramble :s
I’m screaming over vent….”I NEED A HEROISM!!! ” Not in raid, but randomly like when I do dailies and such…just to aggravate.
Well said. And Gratz!
Regarding PuGs in raids, there are two things to consider. To the PuG: the RL leads the raid – not you. In other words, don’t try to set the direction, pace, or strategy. Suggestions (during downtime) are ok, but only in whisper mode. To the R/L: Communicate, communicate, communicate. Let the Puggers know before the raid what your reasonable expectations are, what your loot rules are, and that you have your stuff together. Then, there can be no complaining – they’ve got their opportunity to step out before you enter the portal.
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